Silbury diary

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

Cynic !!

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Mon May 12, 2008 8:38 pm

She'd be right!
The NT seem able to manage properties all over the country but when it comes to Avebury it seems they don't have a bl00dy clue and recruit those suited best not to do the job.
God forbid they actualy hire someone who knows something about the place!
PeteG

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

Oops! That should have read cynics !!

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Mon May 12, 2008 9:36 pm

There used to be a bloke who worked in the Barn that we called Ozzy because he wore a hat with corks hanging off of it.
He was proud of the fact that in the 8 years he had worked for the NT he had never walked all the way around the circle!

I know some locals who haven't but then it's not their Job, they just live in the village.
PeteG

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Hang on...

Cynicism is one of the most striking of all the Hellenistic philosophies. It offered people the possibility of happiness and freedom from suffering in an age of uncertainty. Although there was never an official Cynic doctrine, the fundamental principles of Cynicism can be summarised as follows:[5][6]

The goal of life is happiness which is to live in agreement with Nature.
Happiness depends on being self-sufficient, and a master of mental attitude.
Self-sufficiency is achieved by living a life of Virtue.
The road to Virtue is to free oneself from any influence such as wealth, fame, or power, which have no value in Nature.
Suffering is caused by false judgments of value, which cause negative emotions and a vicious character.
A Cynic, then, has no property and rejects all conventional values of money, fame, power or reputation. A life lived according to nature requires only the bare necessities required for existence, and one can become free by unshackling oneself from any needs which are the result of convention. The Cynics adopted Hercules as their hero, as epitomizing the ideal Cynic.

The Cynical way of life required continuous training, not just in exercising one's judgments and mental impressions, but a physical training as well:

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

This is probably not the the forum to discuss Plato and Socrates but we seemed to have touched on it so I hope no-one minds if I chip in.

One of the most interesting books I read in the last decade is titled The Jesus Mysteries (was the orginal Jesus a pagan god?) by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. It draws remarkable parallels between the historical Jesus and the pagan Cynics - with the early Jesus teachings apparently replicating the teachings of Plato and Socrates. A fascinating read, I've just dusted it down and I think I will re-read it.
Its sequel is called Jesus and the Goddess - equally interesting. Not recommended to anyone with strong Christian beliefs as both books peel back layers of historical lies in the 'big religion' many of us were taught as children.

Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 86

Many years ago, I read a book called "The Jesus Scroll", by Donovan Joyce.

All about how Jesus survived Golgotha, and became leader of the Zealots, and died at Masada.

If anybody hears of a copy, please give me a shout.

Smile

Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 86

According to my reckoning up, 1465 tonnes of chalk have been used to refill Silbury Hill.

So a similar amount must have been scooped out by diggers. Are there any ideas as to where it might be?

bounce

Guest

The obvious place is the moat, maybe covering valuable archeology, offerings, discarded items etc.

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Sat May 17, 2008 1:43 am

I spoke to the producer of the BBC Chronicles 1968 dig and he told me they piled the chalk up in the field where this years compound was.
He said the spoil was taken away but he didn't know where to.
A student on the dig said a lot of the chalk was scattered in between the causeways.
The spoil from the Drax tunnel on top was probably thrown over the edge making the spiral path at the top.
I don't buy into the latest EH theory that Silbury was pointed and the Saxons cut the top off and threw it over the side.
PeteG

Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 86

1465 tonnes is enough to fill this...........................http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2007/10/etfs-monster-dump-truck-roadtrain-eat-your-heart-out-cat-and-liebherr-bigloeryblog-has-the-story.html

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 215

Joined : 18 Jan 2008 Posts : 32

Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 86

I wonder if EH will ever get round to tidying up their Silbury web page?

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511

I looks as though it's been abandoned.

Rolling Eyes

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:11 pm

EH gave up on it when the archaeo's finished in November.
Since then Mark Kirkbride was the only person updating the site.
Now he's left EH have forgotten all about it.
PeteG

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:20 pm

the grass is growing over the scar quite well,
PeteG

Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 86

How is Silbury doing? Is the Chestnut fencing still on top? Have the scars healed?

bounce

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:01 am

the fence is still ontop.
The grass is growing well and the scars are slowly going.
I'll get some more photos when the bl00dy rain stops, hopefully on Saturday at the Avebury day.
PeteG

Joined : 10 Apr 2008 Posts : 2 Location : Bath Road

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:48 pm

well R2M2
this goes to show that the myth that Silbury (and Avebury) shone out as white beacon when first built is nonsense.
PeteG

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

It would have shone like a beacon alright.

But only when they were working on it...

Chalk oxidizes so fast. You can see how grey it has gone in the picture. The white is soon replaced with various dull colours..

Nature can't tolerate a vacuum and so 'clean' space becomes colonised by first the annual plants and then the perennial... The factors that determine the speed of colonisation are normally weather orientated..

Tony

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Just had a thought...

Maybe White was important for Silbury Hill. As in the same way we repaint the White Horses.

As it became 'grassed over' they felt compelled to work on it again..

White being the driving force behind the build...

Tony

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:05 pm

well Silbury One was multi coloured with its turf stacks and clay laeyers etc.
the top of Silbury had grass on it at some point.
Probably as they started work on the bottom and built up the next layer towards the top.
PeteG

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:01 pm

The grey colour of the bare chalk isn't caused by oxidisation - it's goes grey in the winter when it's saturated with water. All the White Horses look terrible in the winter, then they go bright white again when the water dries out in summer (if we get one...)

What's known as 'scouring' of the White horses isn't so much a scraping of the chalk surface (although weeds must be cleared); rather, a dressing of crushed chalk is applied, to replaced what has been washed away in the winter rains. I've got a set of photos of this being done to the Cherhill Horse last year.

My friend Lionel has a theory that the very top of Silbury, above the terrace, was scoured (at least the portion that faces west) and that it represented the setting New Moon. It's an interesting theory as it goes a long way to explaining the Silbury/horizon effect that we've all noticed.

Mike Pitts apparently found evidence to suggest that the ground surface of the Sanctuary was scoured to bare chalk. It has been suggested that the ground surface inside the Avebury circle was also bare chalk. This I find hard to believe, as wet chalk in the winter is horribly slippery and difficult to even walk over. You end up painted white too - but maybe that was the idea!

Guest

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Interesting point Steve...

I can't remember if the chalk we dug up in the winter was white or not..

Could somebody who is living on Chalk dig some up as a little experiment.

Chalk is subject to oxidation though and does not stay white for long...

Tony

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:21 pm

There is something called 'rotted chalk' that is soft and easier to dig - it's almost a puce colour. I think it's saturated with water though, not oxidised.
Not that I am anything like an expert on chalk, I must add!

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

I'm no expert but..

I have lived on Chalk for most of my Life. Worked with it for 30 odd of my working years.. Spend a lot of time on the south Coast and in Northern France..

And I take notice of the environment I am in.

At work, we cut trenches, built banks, dug ponds, made piles etc...

I have watched it oxidise in weeks.. The only way to keep it white is to keep working it...

Tony

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:54 pm

Guest

Guest

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:18 pm

is there a google function to convert Univeristy written Pdf's into Wiltshire speak without having to have read 2 pages of reference works first?
I wonder who it was written for?

I don't know where to start with this one!
PeteG
study

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:23 pm

Same bloke. I don't the Silbury stuff is published yet. But it's my support of his work that makes your Avenue alignment in the other thread so interesting!
I'm sure you know this stuff, but if you follow the Soli-Lunar theory, then the most important alignment is the southern minor standstill moonset because it ensures that once every 19 years the winter solstice sunset is synchronised with dark moon. The point is that it's the dark moon rituals that are seen as important - not full moon at all. The full moon is for hippies.

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:37 pm

Would somebody like to write a summary of that paper so that June and Rose (& other girls) could understand what he is trying to prove?
(I know Rose would be sobbing and banging her keyboard by the time she'd read 4 pages...)
Complex charts of numbers seem to appeal more to blokes....
PeteG

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 215

Joined : 15 Jan 2008 Posts : 850 Location : Surrey

Does this stuff fit the profile of Neolithic Avebury Man ???

Tony

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:56 pm

Guest

Joined : 18 Jan 2008 Posts : 154

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:57 pm

not really Rose,
what do you think of Lionels Silbury paper then?
PeteG

Joined : 18 Jan 2008 Posts : 154

Err, well, um, ok, fair point!
cyclops

Subject: Re: Silbury diary Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:24 pm

well I've read it through 3 times now Rose and if I was out walking around Silbury with you again I wouldn't know how to express what Lionel is trying to say about SIlbury and astronomical functions to you.

There are several alignments that he seems to have missed (or left out.)

I helped Paul Cripps write his paper on the intervisibility of Silbury around the landscape and get a credit in his thesis which is quoted in the paper and I could explain what that is saying to you while we were out and about.
PeteG

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

Ok Pete, I admit I am definitely at the back of the class on this one. Have also been reading the 'Avenue Query' topic and didn't quite get it (surprise), so I went back to basics and read up on the Major Lunar Standstill of 2006/7, specifically in relation to Callanish. I found this site which was reasonably easy to follow http://www.astrocal.co.uk/lunarstandstills.html and also had a look at Gerald Ponting's Moonrise Blog. Plus lots of interesting info on Megalithic Sundials (but I think that is a different topic).

I read about the Minor Standstill 2015 (when the moon will rise at its least northerly and set at its least southerly) and I was wondering how this will be seen from Avebury and Stonehenge - hope I'm still around to find out.

Footnote on a completely different topic for tiompan: Re: Messiaen - Prom 70 on 7 Sept; a rare chance to hear Messiaen's opera St Francis of Assisi, with t