Axe grinding marks

Subject: Axe grinding marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:42 am

Message 4 Pete G

Hi Pete,

Being a man with an axe to grind (only joking mate), could you please tell me the latest on how many axe grinding marks have been defiantly confirmed in the Avebury area?

I have photographed the most reported ones, but the ones in West Kennet Long Barrow seem to be a bit disputed. The grinding marks I know are:-

a) Mr. Young's polisher stone - Somewhere (not saying) on Fyfield Down
b) The inner face of Stone 19b of the West Kennet Avenue
c) A polished patch above the broken part of Stone 32a of the West Kennet Avenue
d) Diffused smoothed area on Stone 24 of the outer circle
e) Diffused smoothed area on Stone 31 of the outer circle

I tried to follow the threads on this subject on the TMA site, but it lost track and ended up on camera lenses!

One of the images of WKLB I linked to, showed each stone with a number. (see http://home.freeuk.com/chippychance/avebury/wk1.png )
I'm told that stone 18 at the entrance to the S.W. Chamber has been ruled out as a polishing area and has been attributed to natural erosion.
What about the others? One of the stones at the back of N.E. Chamber, stone 34 maybe?

Are there any more, anywhere in the area?

Thanks 4 this, Chance.

P.S.
When we eventually meet up in the Red Lion, looks like you'll be going home in a taxi! drunken

Subject: Pollisiors Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:05 pm

Chance,
I helped with a study a few years agao.
Jim Gunter and Vaughn Roberts from Bristol Uni did an extensive survey.
I think the number now stands at 38 definite with a few doubtfuls.
I am waiting for them to publish in WANHM.
There are several in Avebury circle itself, I'll have to show them to you.
There are 3 at WKLB but one of them is now facing inwards on a facade stone.
Stone 18 is a definite and stone 31 on the inside.
There is a good one in a wall at North farm.
PeteG
Ps. The Red Lion is the tourists pub, the club is where the locals drink.

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:56 pm

What about the Cove? I've always assumed that the biggest stone there had deep grinding marks - but it never gets mentioned. And does that mean it was recumbent for a long time (hundreds of years?) before being erected as a Cove stone?

Subject: Axe marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:18 pm

Steve,
the marks on the Cove stone are fossilised root marks.
PeteG

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:25 pm

They don't look like it! I've seen plenty of holes in sarsen that are round, and certainly tree root holes, but these don't look at all natural - they're all about 4-6" long and end abruptly. They're clustered in groups that radiate from several central points. Where does this 'root' thing come from then? (You're probably right - I've got no evidence to the contrary!)

Subject: Axe marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Steve,
Aubrey Burl told me this during one of his tours and there is a WANHM article about the different types of fossils in the sarsens in the area.
You would have to check the index in Devizes Museum Library to find the article.
Have you noticed that a lot of the stones that were broken up for walls or houses contain fossils?
I wondered if they were picked out because they were 'Special' in some way.
PeteG

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:39 pm

Yes, it's interesting that the biggest missing stone from the Beckhampton Cove (companion to Adam) was said by Stukely to be full of fossils. He describes many other fossil stones in the area too, but they've all gone! Some were on the Devizes road. So I guess they were valued more?

Subject: Fossil stones Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:48 pm

Maybe stones with fossils in them were easier to break?
There is a good stone outside the Waggon & Horses that Stukeley said came from the Cove that has a nice fossil in it.
It is only small so could be one of the outliers that the Negotiating Avebury Project speculated once surrounded the cove.
PeteG

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:39 pm

PeteG
WOW! Now that's what I call groovy man, 38 of 'em. afro

I look forward to reading that report. Hope they do publish it, not like the dig I took part in for the Saxon village in the car park. They even managed to loose (temp. mis-place) the photo's I'd taken, and that was 20 years ago this Beltane. Crying or Very sad

You say There is a good one in a wall at North farm. I know it sounds like a pain, but could you please give an OS grid ref. when you come out with gem's like that. TKOTS goes on about "passing knowledge on to next generation" and he comes out with more ballcocks than a retarded plumber! Rolling Eyes

I know the club's the place to chill, and judging by the Romo-British finds from their car park, looks like it always was.. "the more it changes, the more it stays the same...eh" Wink

Chow4now Chance

P.S. I hope there's some sort of fund going to preserve your brain in a jar. All that knowledge in one head can't be good and you know what happened to old WS! You sure seem to get around for a guy of 99, I hope you've stopped having sex for your tickers sake.......
pale

Subject: Pollisior Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:16 am

Chance,
I'll email you a pic of the pollisoir at North Farm.
If you contact Gill Swanton she will show you exactly where it is.
If memory servers the Saxon dig was overseen by Faith Vatcher?
She died a little while back so I guess most of her work will be in the process of being catalogued by the AK Museum.
Mind you Dennis Grant Kings' lifes work ended up at car boot sales in Devizes.
The guy that did the house clearance threw out bin bags of paper notes and drawings.
We managed to save most of the photos and glass plate slides.

Most of the stuff I have researched I put onto a panoramic cd rom but I no longer sell it.
I am working on a new one that is similar to AC Smiths book which covers 100 miles around Avebury.
Once the Silbury dig finishes I'll settle down to putting it onto a dvd.
(I'll keep the Stonehenge stuff seperate for now as there are ongoing digs I want to cover over the next few years.)
PeteG

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:24 am

I went to Avebury yesterday to look at the biggest Cove stone again - I find it very hard to believe that those grooves are fossil marks. For one thing, they're all concave. Is one of them had an actual fossil in it, I'd be more convinced. They look an awful lot like they've been scraped in there by humans...

Subject: Axe grinding marks Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:05 pm

Steve,
Sarsen is one of the hardest stones in the country.
What could be used to make such marks?
PeteG

Guest

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:12 pm

Hi Terence,
That's a fair point, but that's not what they look like!
I think everyone, when they discover that round holes in Sarsen are caused by tree roots, can see that clearly. I've looked at countless holes in Sarsen and there's no doubt for me, as to what caused them. But those marks on the Cove stone don't look anything like tree roots!

Subject: North Farm Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:14 am

Message 4 Pete G

Hi Pete,

I hope to be in the Avebury area, after the High Feast of Ostara , over Easter.

Planning to spend a day looking at sites east of Avebury. I might get the Bus into Marlborough and walk back along the river valley.

Keeping on subject of Axe grinding marks and Sarsen, might look for your pollisoir at North Farm, If I can contact Gill Swanton. Do you have a Grid Ref? Near to path?

Do you have a Grid Ref. for the chisel in the Sarsen at Lockeridge Dene?
I remember reading somewhere that every generation of kids in the village try to pull it out but never can.

I was told of some interesting sarsen in the churchyard's of West Overton and Fyfield. Any fossil's to be seen around this area?

Do you know any stories of the Free's or Cartwrights families, the Sarsen stone mason's? Most died young from silicosis, breathing in silicon dust.

You mention that Jim Gunter and Vaughn Roberts from Bristol Uni did an extensive survey of axe grinding marks. Do you know of any around the Church yard or museum area?

A final question on that bit of world, have you ever climbed the hill to look at Bitham Barrow SU 13728 67417 or the other Barrow up on White Hill?

Any photo's to share with your public?

Cheers Pete

Chance

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:56 am

as a Jedi knight I will be busy then Twisted Evil

Bitham barrow is completely gone.
I have been there and made a pano from the spot.
Good views towards the Sanctuary.

There are lots of chiels left in many stones all over Piggledean.

There is a broken stone on the barn with a small polishing area on.

Gill Swanton should be in the phone book under North Farm.
The polisher is on her land near her house.

BB is yer man for the stone breaking families,
PeteG

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:13 pm

Hi June,
yes they are the same stone.
The monster stone is 10 mins walk away.
If you don't know the area you will need a guide.

I guess the stone is fenced off to stop sheep falling down the hole.
I'll ask Gill about it on saturday at the Avebury residents pack launch.
PeteG

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

Hello June. I have step by step instructions on how to find the polisher but im not gonna give em to ya. If you have yet to go for a walk with Pete make this the occasion. Ps if you have time take a picnic its a perfect place and i'm sure you will want to spend some time in the area as its one of the most tranquil places I've ever been. Make sure you have an empty memory card in your camera too. Very Happy

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

Chance said:
P.S. I hope there's some sort of fund going to preserve your brain in a jar.
---End quote----

I totally agree chance. Pete's brain should never be allowed to 'die'.

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 am

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

Write it ALL down pete.
Someone would have to sacrifice a whole swathe of forest to supply the paper pete. :easterisland:

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:29 am

I stopped making notes ages ago.
I had boxes of papers with scribbled notes on that didn't make much sense to me, let alone anyone else who tried to decipher my scrawlins.
PeteG
Example.
"West lane top from village near river.RH hedge huge sarsen could be 1 of Aubreys triple.Go back feb"

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

When your long gone pete history will look back and regret your knowledge was lost. Generations to come SHOULD have access to your work and it's a real shame that you cant do something to preserve it.
Lurkers with wealth take heed. Neutral

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:41 am

well I won't be the first.
I know an old boy who lives in a nearby village who kept a book of notes for years.
He stopped about 5 years ago as he decided he couldn't do anything with it and he certainly isn't going to give it to the NT (not that they would be interested in an amatuers local perspective)
Even Dennis Grant Kings archive ended up being scattered in car boot sales.

I'm only rediscovering things that others have discovered before.
I mean you would have thought a Mini Silbury would have stirred Some interest but no.....
sigh
Crying or Very sad

PeteG

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

When you think of the public money wasted on the stonehenge fiasco that could have been put to better use it makes me sick.
The thing with the established as well as the up an coming archeologists is they all want their own five minutes of fame, theres not much in it for them working on someone else's discovery is there. **** the establishment. Evil or Very Mad

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:59 am

well this is how archaeologists tend to treat amateurs these days.
BritArch - Bonekickers row

PeteG

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

Would like to say I'm shocked but this sort of thing doesn't surprise me, i couldn't bring myself to watch the programme as i knew basically what it was gonna be like. Rolling Eyes

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:43 am

I've watched both episodes and wish I hadn't.
It's like watching a slow car crash...
affraid

PeteG

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

From what i heard more like a slow car crash involving two convertibles with the occupants not wearing seatbelts whilst clothed in iron maidens. Embarassed

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

Subject: Re: Axe grinding marks Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:30 am

sounds good June.
Maybe Rose would like to come along as she has been meaning to visit it for 5 years or so...
While in that area I can show you how to find the cup marked stone as well.
PeteG

Joined : 12 Jul 2008 Posts : 321

It is quite a walk June, i took the route along green street and though by no means a boring route, Pete I'm sure will be pointing out stuff in the distance and feeding you all sorts of info on things you'd otherwise miss, making the march up there seem lots shorter and infinitely more educating.

One point June, wearing footwear with ankle support is a sensible precaution, the place is littered with hidden hazards, rabbit holes etc and injury is a quite real prospect.

Joined : 18 Jan 2008 Posts : 154

Yes I'd love to come for a walk with you Pete and June, unfortunately Thursdays aren't too good for me at the moment, but that could change. For now I'd be better with a Saturday (providing I can find someone to mind my son - we could take him, but he would be a stick-waving distraction!).

Have British Gas given you a working boiler yet June? I bet they sent the wrong type of part or engineer or something - there was something on Watchdog not so long ago about how rubbish they are. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 471 Location : Wiltshire

I can do a Saturday Rose, just thought Pete might have have other stuff on, and would love to meet your son - am into kids in a big way.

Looking forward to a ramble Rose (sorry, couldn't resist).

Thanks for the advice Megadread - just bought a pair of light-weight walking shoes and have done the walk up to Fyfield Down a few times. I met someone on Sunday who wants to walk from Barbury or Chiseldon to Avebury with me - we also thought we might do Marlborough to Avebury or visa versa. I'm one of life's walkers.

I won't comment on BGas here as I would probably get sued - and you were spot on Rose, thats exactly what happened. Fortunately my mother lives quite close so I have been popping in for showers otherwise I would be on my way to being an 'unkempt, smelly hippie'.

Only joking Megadread! Thanks again for the advice, it is quite tiring walking up Green Street but worth it, and the walk back down feels like floating - walking in the footsteps of out ancestors.

Joined : 18 Jan 2008 Posts : 154

I am a Rose that likes a good ramble June! Both walking and talking!

It'll be good to put a face to a name.

I've given up on walking boots myself (couldn't find a comfy pair) and invested in a pair of Farmer's Wellies lined with neoprene. Wonderfully warm and waterproof and a bit padded too. Bit hot for summer walking, but great for muddy fields and small rivers! Not cheap, but I love 'em!

Dare I ask after the boiler? Will we be seeing you on Watchdog soon?

flower

Guest